The Canadian Association for Equality received no response from rabble.ca to our submission of an editorial in response to their article directly attacking CAFE:
Lies our fathers told us: The men’s rights movement and campus-based misogyny
Here is that response:
Mr. Laxter is correct that CAFE claims men are facing discrimination. He is incorrect that we claim “women are no longer victims of systemic inequality”. We challenge him to find that statement or an equivalent one on our website or any of our other publications. We argue that misandry co-exists with misogyny. The only difference is that misogyny, unlike misandry, is now closely monitored and provokes massive public responses.
There are many well-established groups that are doing good work addressing the ways in which women are discriminated against. There are virtually no groups making similar efforts for men.
Mr. Laxter’s article ranges widely in the subjects it addresses so we will briefly touch on each aspect.
Men’s Health
One of the claims Mr. Laxter took exception to was our statement that there is not a lot of awareness of men’s health issues. He cites the existence of “Men’s Health” magazine as evidence to the contrary. It is difficult to take this seriously. We’re tempted to cite “Cosmo” in response as evidence that women’s health issues are adequately addressed.
How many medical research projects are specifically about the sexual gap in longevity? If women were dying five years sooner than men, the result would be a revolution. Given cultural conditioning since childhood, moreover, men have been very reluctant to seek medical help.
As a simple example of similar issues receiving dissimilar attention, we only have to look as far as breast and prostate cancer. They share similar levels of lethality, but breast cancer receives vastly more public and medical attention.
We also cite the dangers men face at work as an example of male health being discounted. Make no mistake, the disparity in workplace deaths has nothing to do “with class and working conditions” as Mr. Laxter claims, and everything to do with gender. According to the Centre for the Study of Living Standards, the most dangerous industries in Canada are (in order) mining, logging, fishing, agriculture, and contruction. All fields dominated by men. The report also states men are 30 times more likely to die on the job. If the genders were reversed I guarantee the Mr. Laxter would consider this a gender issue, not one of class.
Laxter says that those people should look to join a union to address the dangers of the workplace. What expectation should these men have that a union will adequately address their needs? CUPE, Canada’s largest union, defines sexism as “a set of beliefs, actions and institutions that give men social and economic power over women.” Men are supposed to feel comfortable approaching a group that explicitly says they cannot be discriminated against?
Also please note in that report, that the CSLS states “insufficient progress is being made in reducing the number and rate of workplace fatalities. Canada can do much better.” We wonder if that has something to do with the fact that the majority of the deaths are men?
Suicide
CAFE takes the position that the fact that the male suicide rate is four times that of women indicates a systemic problem that needs to be addressed. Mr. Laxter believes that because women attempt suicide at roughly the same rate that men succeed at it, there is nothing to worry about here. But this doesn’t mean that those women want to die. Usually, it means that they want support; they’re reaching out for help, not trying to kill themselves. They’ve retained hope, in other words, not succumbed to despair.
Evidence supports this. Men are more likely to choose immediately lethal methods of suicide like firearms or asphyxiation, while women are more likely to use less reliable methods like pills or other poisons.
As with the workplace death question. we ask the reader: if the genders were reversed, and there were four times as many dead women as dead men, would it be a “distortion” to say it is a problem we should talk about?
Bullying
Mr. Laxter excuses the perpetrators of bullying, since the victims are also male. Since the victimizers are the same gender as the victims, Mr. Laxter doesn’t seem to think we should do anything about it.
CAFE doesn’t care who is perpetrating the bullying. Victim blaming in the form of “the fact that boys and men are the victims of boys and men’s violence does not mean that they are victims of anything other than male aggression and patriarchal notions regarding what constitutes male sexuality” does nothing to solve or prevent the very real problems young boys are growing up with. Regardless of who is doing the bullying, it is pervasive and destructive and must be stopped.
Finally, he writes about what he calls “CAFE clones”. The only group he cites that we are actually affiliated with is the ‘Toronto Men’s Meetup’. He cites two of our claims. The first is the men and women commit domestic violence against each other at comparable rates.
There are several different studies we can use to support that claim.
It’s true, as Laxter points out, that more women than men suffer serious physical injuries due to domestic violence. That’s at least partly because of differences in size, strength and formal or informal training in combat; when men do fight back, therefore, they’re generally more effective than women in causing damage. The studies show that women initiate domestic violence as often as men do not that the results are identical. Moreover, men are much less likely than women even to report violence against them. The police have now been trained to accept the word of a woman on faith, even though the law gives mothers a vested interest in accusing their husbands with or without evidence. In fact, the police are now trained to arrest men immediately, even if these men were the ones who called for help in the first place. And there are no shelters for abused men.
Our main point in making that claim, is addressing the societal assumption that partner violence is “almost entirely a phenomenon involving male perpetrators and female victims, i.e. as a problem of ‘violence against women;’ and the corollary assumption that the primary cause of PV is the patriarchal nature of society and the family.” (to quote the second study we linked)
It’s true that men resort to violence much more often than women do, as Laxter points out. Ergo, for him, men have only themselves to blame. Once again, the implication is to blame the victims as a class. Dividing humans into classes, whether in terms of economics or ethnicity or language or religion or sex or sexual orientation or anything else, can be instructive in some ways, but doing so obscures as much as it reveals from a moral perspective. Humans are never merely tokens in class warfare and thus the means to some greater end. Humans are always individuals, too, and thus ends in themselves.
The false dichotomy Mr. Laxter presumes between men’s issues and women’s issues is counter-productive and will only work against those of us who are interested in improving the lives of all Canadians, rather than arguing over who is most oppressed.
It is profoundly wrong, from a moral point of view, to indulge in what could be called “comparative suffering.” That’s partly because people suffer in many different ways and because suffering is experienced subjectively. Ultimately, though, it’s because comparative suffering invariably trivializes one group. Does it make any moral sense to even who suffered more: European Jews under twelve years of National Socialism or black Americans under three hundred years of slavery and segregation? Asking that question makes no moral sense at all, yet Laxter’s entire argument relies on the belief that women suffer more, quantitatively, than men do. From that, he concludes that only women deserve to be taken seriously as fully human beings. Men, an evil class in his opinion, deserve only contempt. This is precisely what we mean by misandry
He doesn’t have to support us, but nor should he misrepresent us. Conflating us with “hostility towards women and feminism” as he does is more than misleading. It is an outright lie. Painting all of those interested in Men’s issues with the brush of it’s most extreme supports is a debate tactic of someone with nothing else to say.
Anyone, any woman or any man, can absorb misandry from the cultural environment and find it personally or politically expedient to propagate. (as feminists rightly say for misogyny.) We would never argue that women in general have caused misandry or even most of the other problems that now afflict men. The origins of these problems had nothing to do with women. They had everything to do with a long series of technological and cultural revolutions, which began with the rise of agriculture ten thousand years ago.
Heres my rant………
As a typical apologetic Canadian I must apologize deeply for the appalling behavior of my fellow Canadians last weekend in Toronto. The terrorits behavior proved to the world that Canada is plagued by violent intolerant bigoted criminals like Hitler’s brown shirts..
Please forgive me for the length of this note as I attempt to wrap my head around this complex and draconian issue. Misandry is fairly new to me. Upon discovering this issue my conscious and lack of knowledge compelled me to research misandry further.
What I have found is that misandry forms the central pillar of Canadian social control programs (SCPs). I compared SCPs from other countries to ours. The strongest comparison was Hitler’s SCP of anti-Semitism as is described in his book Mein Kampf, My Struggle, in which he dehumanizes the targets of his SCP.
The inflammatory labels Hitler brands the future human sacrifices of his SCP, Jews in this case, are virtually identical to the language use by misandrists in Canada. Use of such language is deemed as hate crimes in Canada. That is unless it is used against men like it was used against Jews in Germany in a strategy to demonize, dehumanize and persecute like animals.
Based on historical comparisons, such as with the Soviet Union’s Gulags and Canadian aboriginal residential school SCPs, it seems that the fate of current Canadian SCP victims is likely to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Misandrists in Canada take pride in being labeled as Nazis as this acknowledges their status of absolute power in Canadian society along with commensurate state funding and privileges.
A litany of wrongfully accused cases involving men, like David Milgaard, and virtually none involving women, plagues our entirely corrupt Kleptocratic Canadian criminal justice system. The hate propaganda spewed by misandrists in Canada mirrors Hitler’s view that “I see no reason why man should not be as cruel to man as nature is”.
Nothing in Canada describes the criminal justice system as clearly as this quotation. Men are routinely wrongfully accused and the innocents are knowingly subjected to human atrocities in our criminal justice system. These usually mild mannered meek innocents are routinely beaten, raped, etc at the behest of the system.
Studies have proven that sex accusations against men are false anywhere from 25% to 75% of the time. An exploding industry is the growth of the wrongly accused business. Lawyers and groups address the justice system’s widespread atrocities that are blatant, extreme, fraudulant and fabrications of fictional crimes. These state based frauds are created to feed a steady supply of innocent victims into the system in order to steal increasingly large amounts of government cash to benefit the criminal justice system cronies. This occurs at a time when statistics prove that crime is declining significantly.
Misandry corruption has led to the establishment of a well-entrenched Canadian kleptocracy for feminist special interest groups and other misandrists funded and/or enabled by the state such as the crmininal justice system. Kleptocracy, “rule by thieves”, is a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population, often without pretense of honest service.
Those who attacked Warren’s presentation in Toronto last weekend were state sponsored terrorists for whom truth is completely irrelevant. Promulgating male truths by Warren, no matter how unassociated with misandry and feminism, may eventually compromise the misandrist’s Kleptocratic status and benefits. Many sex charge related cases are fabricated and kleptocratic as Milgaard found where crown witnesss were paid to lie.
I would be surprised to hear anything other than that the authorities such as the university, government special interest funding departments, criminal justice system, etc., all condoned and enabled the behavior to date by ensuring that their terrorist acts go consequence free. So far my suspicions have been confirmed.
My grandparents left Europe after WW1 because they believed that those in charge would make war all over again in their lifetime. Sadly, they were correct. By those in charge they meant the wealthy and powerful that created Hitler.
Gramps meant the supporters and creators of Hitler such as the Henry Fords, Duponts, Krupps, JP Gettys, IBMs, King of England, etc, to whom Hitler gave the highest possible state recognition for creating and supporting him and nazism. My gramps believed that war was highly profitable for such people who were personally responsible for the war crimes. The same applies in our current Canadian society with regards to the obvious links between misandry SCPs and Kleptocracy.
In terms of explaining why our Canadian society has embraced misandry en masse, I found understanding from the book: On fighting, killing, and dying : the secret World War II transcripts of German POWs by author Neitzel, Sönke. This explains how Germany’s normal families, friends, neighbors, coworkers, etc became blood thirsty zombie butchers as a result of Hitler’s SCPs. Canada has adopted the same SCPs standard with misandry replacing anti-Semitism and anti-anyone not Aryan. At this point I have read a summary of this book and hope to read it all when it becomes available from the local library.
The psychotic violent mob at Warren’s persentation is the same ilk as the German brown shirt gangs attacking Jews and anyone else that may be any threat, or just propose a differnt view, to Hitlers sadistic values which have the same dehumanizing aspects of our kleptocracy’s misandry values.
“Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.”Edmund Burke
“The spectacle (McCarthyism) is one we would expect in a totalitarian nation where the rights of the individual are crushed beneath the juggernaut of statism and oppression; it has no place in America where government exists to serve people, not to destroy them” President Harry S. Truman.
Here’s my rant………
As a typical apologetic Canadian I must apologize deeply for the appalling behavior of my fellow Canadians last weekend in Toronto. The terrorist behavior proved to the world that Canada is plagued by violent intolerant bigoted criminals like Hitler’s brown shirts..
Please forgive me for the length of this note as I attempt to wrap my head around this complex and draconian issue. Misandry is fairly new to me. Upon discovering this issue my conscious and lack of knowledge compelled me to research misandry further.
What I have found is that misandry forms the central pillar of Canadian social control programs (SCPs). I compared SCPs from other countries to ours. The strongest comparison was Hitler’s SCP of anti-Semitism as is described in his book Mein Kampf, My Struggle, in which he dehumanizes the targets of his SCP.
The inflammatory labels Hitler brands the future human sacrifices of his SCP, Jews in this case, are virtually identical to the language use by misandrists in Canada. Use of such language is deemed as hate crimes in Canada. That is unless it is used against men like it was used against Jews in Germany in a strategy to demonize, dehumanize and persecute like animals.
Based on historical comparisons, such as with the Soviet Union’s Gulags and Canadian aboriginal residential school SCPs, it seems that the fate of current Canadian SCP victims is likely to get a lot worse before it gets better.
Misandrists in Canada take pride in being labeled as Nazis as this acknowledges their status of absolute power in Canadian society along with commensurate state funding and privileges.
A litany of wrongfully accused cases involving men, like David Milgaard, and virtually none involving women, plagues our entirely corrupt Kleptocratic Canadian criminal justice system. The hate propaganda spewed by misandrists in Canada mirrors Hitler’s view that “I see no reason why man should not be as cruel to man as nature is”.
Nothing in Canada describes the criminal justice system as clearly as this quotation. Men are routinely wrongfully accused and the innocents are knowingly subjected to human atrocities in our criminal justice system. These usually mild mannered meek innocents are routinely beaten, raped, etc. at the behest of the system.
Studies have proven that sex accusations against men are false anywhere from 25% to 75% of the time. An exploding industry is the growth of the wrongly accused business. Lawyers and groups address the justice system’s widespread atrocities that are blatant, extreme, and fraudulent and fabrications of fictional crimes. These state based frauds are created to feed a steady supply of innocent victims into the system in order to steal increasingly large amounts of government cash to benefit the criminal justice system cronies. This occurs at a time when statistics prove that crime is declining significantly.
Misandry corruption has led to the establishment of a well-entrenched Canadian kleptocracy for feminist special interest groups and other misandrists funded and/or enabled by the state such as the criminal justice system. Kleptocracy, “rule by thieves”, is a form of political and government corruption where the government exists to increase the personal wealth and political power of its officials and the ruling class at the expense of the wider population, often without pretense of honest service.
Those who attacked Warren’s presentation in Toronto last weekend were state sponsored terrorists for whom truth is completely irrelevant. Promulgating male truths by Warren, no matter how unassociated with misandry and feminism, may eventually compromise the misandrist’s Kleptocratic status and benefits. Many sex charges related cases are fabricated and kleptocratic as Milgaard found where crown witnesses were paid to lie.
I would be surprised to hear anything other than that the authorities such as the university, government special interest funding departments, criminal justice system, etc., all condoned and enabled the behavior to date by ensuring that their terrorist acts go consequence free. So far my suspicions have been confirmed.
My grandparents left Europe after WW1 because they believed that those in charge would make war all over again in their lifetime. Sadly, they were correct. By those in charge they meant the wealthy and powerful that created Hitler.
Gramps meant the supporters and creators of Hitler such as the Henry Fords, DuPont’s, Krupp’s, JP Getty’s, IBMs, King of England, etc., to whom Hitler gave the highest possible state recognition for creating and supporting him and Nazism. My gramps believed that war was highly profitable for such people who were personally responsible for the war crimes. The same applies in our current Canadian society with regards to the obvious links between misandry SCPs and Kleptocracy.
In terms of explaining why our Canadian society has embraced misandry en masse, I found understanding from the book: On fighting, killing, and dying : the secret World War II transcripts of German POWs by author Neitzel, Sönke. This explains how Germany’s normal families, friends, neighbors, coworkers, etc. became blood thirsty zombie butchers as a result of Hitler’s SCPs. Canada has adopted the same SCPs standard with misandry replacing anti-Semitism and anti-anyone not Aryan. At this point I have read a summary of this book and hope to read it all when it becomes available from the local library.
The psychotic violent mob at Warren’s presentation is the same ilk as the German brown shirt gangs attacking Jews and anyone else that may be any threat, or just propose a different view, to Hitler’s sadistic values which have the same dehumanizing aspects of our kleptocracy’s misandry values.
“Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.”Edmund Burke
“The spectacle (McCarthyism) is one we would expect in a totalitarian nation where the rights of the individual are crushed beneath the juggernaut of statism and oppression; it has no place in America where government exists to serve people, not to destroy them” President Harry S. Truman.
An excellent response. I can only wonder where Mr Laxter learned to hate men so much. He will definitely not publish your response. This is how totalitarianism works.
“We would never argue that women in general have caused misandry or even most of the other problems that now afflict men.”
Holding you to a higher standard then feminists, I see.
How many of them can say they don’t argue that men, in general, have caused misogyny or most of the problems that afflict women?
Hi, Everyone blame Men for everything but no one is actually taking a good look at the big pic, Lets talk about child support for a min, I don’t think a man should be force to pay child support if he don’t want to, It seems like Men are living under dictatorship and there is no winning, If a Man and a Women agree to have sex and the woman gets pregnant, Who’s fault is that? Is it the Man’s fault? No it isn’t, But the law seems to think it is the Man’s fault. The Man have no choice to say what the Woman should do with the baby now the Man’s life is in the mercy of the Woman’s hands once she gets pregnant and he cannot do anything about it.
The saying is that it’s the Woman’s body, but if it is the Woman’s body she should protect her body from getting pregnant, They are also saying that the Man shouldn’t have sex with the Woman if he didn’t want a baby, But he didn’t force her to have sex or that would be rape, She agree to have sex with the man, so how is it the Man’s fault ? I would like to ask the Law Makers who seem to hate Men so much.
If the Woman made the decision to bring the baby then she should be liable and not the Man , If the Man wants the woman to bring the baby and she did then the Man should be liable, Men and Women who agrees with me should fight harder for the Law to change very soon. Canada are suppose to be a fare country but it is not fare to Men, Women have way more rights than Men. Lets work Together for equal rights. and stop supporting Baby Trap. Changing the Law will help in Many ways, Like Teenage pregnancy and single parenting, Because women will realise that Law is not supporting them. It wall also help stop welfare fraud and make young women stay in school and work harder, There is no more easy money for them.
Fatherhood, Like Motherhood should be a choice not a legal trap.